The Way Out Is In / The Three Jewels (Episode #89)

00:00:00

Dear friends, welcome back to this latest episode of the podcast series, The Way Out Is In.

00:00:21

I’m Jo Confino, working at the intersection of personal transformation and systems evolution.

00:00:27

And I am Brother Phap Huu, student of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh in the Plum Village tradition.

00:00:32

And today, dear listeners, we are going to be looking at one of the foundational teachings of Buddhism which is the Three Jewels: the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha.

00:00:47

The way out is in.

00:01:02

Hello dear friends, I am Jo Confino.

00:01:05

And I’m Brother Phap Huu.

00:01:06

And brother, we are going to talk today about the Three Jewels: the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. Why are they called the Three Jewels? Because… I imagine that’s because they’re very precious.

00:01:21

The Three Jewels, when I reflect on this, in a way, it’s the legacy of the Buddha that he left behind for all of us. And the Three Jewels are the representation of the path of the Buddha which is himself, first of all. When I speak about himself, it’s not from an egotistic place, but it is for wisdom to be handed down, you have to have teachers. So it’s important to recognize the teachers that are present in life, and particularly here, in Buddhism, the teacher, our original teacher, when we speak in these language in Buddhism, it refers to the Buddha himself. And The Buddha was a human being that had gone through the experience and journey of life like all of us. Even he experienced loss at a very early age when his mother passed away when she gave birth to him, so that already was a condition of suffering that he had to learn to grieve, and he had to go through his journey without a mother, but very fortunately his aunt became his mother. His journey, touching enlightenment, allow people to understand that this is a person that I can take refuge in because, now, through his practice and his cultivation he has wisdom that he can transmit to us. And the word Buddha is a title. So Buddha was something that people gave to him and it means awakening, to awaken. And it’s really important to understand that the Buddha didn’t want to be seen as a god himself. He wanted to be known as a teacher, as a human being that has found a way out of suffering. And his teaching is to liberate us from suffering. So that is a jewel. So when we are following this path, we know that these teachings didn’t come from nowhere. It has a source. And that source is a human being that went through a journey and went through meditation, went through deep looking, deep cultivation, and to have breakthrough through suffering, and understanding life, death, and being free from that and all the desires. So it’s important for us, as a Buddhist, especially I’m very fortunate to find the Plum Village path, because when I was growing up as a Buddhist I also thought that the Buddha was a god. That the Buddha is somebody who sits on a cloud, who’s levitating, is free. We have folklores or legends and we have movies that would incorporate Buddhism into its culture. And for example, maybe a lot of listeners will know of the famous tales of the journey to the West. And it’s about a monk that from… China, he traveled all the way to India, to Nalanda, to study, to learn, and then he brought back the sutras to China. And he did a very big role in transmitting this wisdom to the Far East. And that is how we have a lot of sutras for us to read. And he translated from ancient language into Chinese. And so that was actually a true story, true fact, but there was a wonderful author that wrote a story based on his journey with Legends of the Monkey King. And the Monkey King was born from a rock. Became more superior than humans and went through a journey. And the only superior god, in a way, or being, was the Buddha that can subdue him. And so, you know, I grew up with these folk stories and these amazing movies about it, because I love martial arts, so it was nothing but amazing action. So you can consider like Journey to the West like The Star Wars of the Western film industry and concepts and ideals of good versus bad. And so Journey to the West was a part of our childhood. And when I see the Buddha as somebody who can subdue the Monkey King, I was just like, okay, this guy is pretty cool. So there’s a lot of myth around, you know, the Buddha. Or the stereotypical idea that he is more superior than all of us, and so on. But coming to Plum Village and hearing our teacher speak about Buddha nature, which is translated as the awakened seed in each and every one of us. And Thay, meaning teacher in Vietnamese, Thay has said that all of us, we have Buddha nature. Every being has Buddha nature, even a dog has Buddha nature. A tree has Buddha nature. Every being that is present has the awareness of mindfulness in this way. So the first jewel is the Buddha, meaning that these teachings come from direct experience. And these words are very important: direct experience. And that’s why for me, growing up, and meeting this particular Dharma and these particular teachings from the Plum Village tradition. It really spoke my language. It wasn’t about blind faith, it wasn’t about like, these are words from a book that we can’t touch and we can’t change, we can’t challenge. But they are written from, recorded from the stories of the Buddha, from teachings himself, and we have to know that it probably have been also… Some of the teachings have been missing because through oral transmission things get lost, right? But fortunately, in this tradition… then the different teachers also practice that Dharma so would also use and examine their own practice to sometimes re-adjust, re-correct the teachings that have been handed down. We are very lucky that Thay has done this to renew Buddhism. Thay was very aware that in our times we are thirsty of spirituality without knowing it because it is hidden with a layer of religion. And a lot of us can be allergic to religion. Even sometimes I’m still allergic to religion. I’m still allergic to sometimes some of the ceremonial stuff that we do as a monk, but it’s a full package, so I’m here. But I’ve learned to understand, have curiosity, and bring meaning to it. And to also see where can we adjust to make it relevant for our times. So when we talk about the first jewel is The Buddha, first of all is we have to understand that each and every one of us have Buddha nature. And because the Buddha was able to transform and walk the path of liberation, that also means that we all have that potential. And that’s very key. And fortunately, some of us may be able to be with people who have some of those characteristics that we can learn from. And in the Zen tradition, and then in Buddhism, we always need a transmitter. There’s a relationship between teacher and student where there is a companionship on the path. If a teacher understands that his true belonging and his true continuation are his students, then he would do everything in his capacity or her capacity, or their capacity, to transmit the wisdom that has been handed down from that. So the Buddha Jewel is to acknowledge that this tradition has a root teacher. And it comes from direct experience. And it embraces, embodies the awakened nature that each and every one of us has. And a good teacher, a good Buddha, can allow us to touch our Buddha nature.

00:11:04

Wow, brother, that was so beautifully spoken. We could just stop now, actually. A couple of things that you said I just want to pick up on. One is, one of the things I think a lot of people have a lot of respect for Thay is he says, Buddhism doesn’t mean ignoring your own traditional religious roots. And that Buddha nature is, by the fact that it’s not considered a religion, it can come alongside your religious history. So that if you’re Jewish or Christian, you don’t need to say, oh, I’m a Buddhist. You can continue with your own traditions. And Thay says it’s so important to stay rooted in your traditions, because that is our individual ancestry. And that buddhahood doesn’t contradict that, doesn’t overlay it, but actually comes alongside it to support that.

00:11:58

Exactly. And I think I’ve said this a few times in the podcast, but what has been very enlightening for me was when Thay speaks about Buddhism, he says, even in Buddhism, we are made of non-Buddhist elements. So there are some teachings that have come before the Buddha’s time, and the Buddha has incorporated them into the tradition, into the understanding… Like the last episode we spoke about the four minds of love. And a lot of that already came from an ancient wisdom. And sometimes new teachers can shine new lights to them and make it adaptable and very relevant for our times. So this is also a wonderful mind to have because it can also allow us to be even free in our path. One of the strengths from the Three Jewels is a sense of belonging also. And I think now I can speak of it very confidently where we all have a longing for home, a longing for refuge. And when we speak about the Three Jewels in Buddhism, we speak about I take refuge in the Three Jewels. And that also means I take refuge in the awakened nature that I have somewhere as my my guiding light, in a way. And whenever I feel lost, I know there’s a refuge. Where’s my Buddha nature? My Buddha nature is my mindfulness shining in, shining out, shining near, shining far. Thay has said that mindfulness itself is Buddha nature, right mindfulness. Because right mindfulness allows us to know what to do and what not to do in the present moment. So it’s the Buddha nature not as just an individual, but it has now become a whole movement, a movement of awakening. So spirituality can give us a place of inner freedom, as well as inner refuge. For me, as an individual, I think when we speak about freedom, it means freedom from our suffering, freedom from our craving, freedom from our being lost. It’s wonderful to say that there is a foundation that I can always rely on. And so, in the deep understanding of our journey on the path of spirituality, the all three of the jewels, but the first jewel that we’re speaking on is not outside of us, it is right here, right now. And the teachings become our Buddha teachings, our Buddha light, are Buddha nature itself. So Thay always jokes, and it’s very true, we can continue and make vows to aspire to be a Buddha, but most of us are part-time Buddhas. Meaning, only when we are aware, we have that Buddha nature activated. But the deeper we can invest our time and energy in the cultivation of applied mindfulness into everyday life and the understanding, and love and compassion in an ethical way, our Buddha nature becomes more and more present and alive. And Buddhahood is right here, right now.

00:15:41

And also brother what you talk about and what Thay talked about is that this is a lifelong journey. This is not like… It’s not like you reach Buddhahood and then you’re enlightened and then you do nothing. Because one of the things that Thay talked about in the past was that the Buddha suffered all through his life. It’s not like he reached enlightenment and… just sat there. He had to continue practice and he had to deal with continuing suffering. It wasn’t as though his life was perfect. There were all sorts of problems within the community, within the political framing of where he lived. Can you talk a little bit about just that sense of actually, Thay would say, don’t try and be perfect, but every day we can improve a little bit. And that even at the end of our life, it’s endless. You know, it’s not like we reach a destination with.

00:16:37

And I think the Buddha was also free from titles. And how dangerous a title can feel that we have come to the end of our path, right? And it’s very true what you have spoken on a Buddha would know that Buddha nature is ever-growing. It is very organic, it is conditioned. And at the core of it, the Buddha is a human being. So he needs to eat, he needs sleep, he needs to wake up, he gets sick. He has students, he has well-behaved students, he has students that are literally punks and creating trouble for the sangha. And you can read all about it in the history of the Buddha. Where do the precepts come from? Our mindful trainings. We, as monks, we have 250 rules. And the rules were created because monastics were behaving in a way that wasn’t appropriate to the path that they have vowed to walk. So you can even see that even in the Buddhist times, people, human beings, living with an enlightened person will still fall into darkness and traps of suffering. And the Buddha would say… Oh my gosh, why would you do that? Why would you say that? My students, from now on you are not allowed to do this. And that becomes a rule. So even during the Buddha’s time, the Buddha was so alive, he was so active, and he was so present for his community. And that’s why there has been so much trust and faith in this teacher because he is so connected to the present moment and the suffering. And when we learn about the Vinaya, we learn the origins of where they come from. And the first rule of a monk or a nun is we cannot have sexual intercourse. The moment we do that we’re out. Game over. We’re done. We’ve been cooked, you know. It comes from the time of the Buddha when his students when they just ordained they didn’t have precepts yet. It was quite simple, you just come up to the Buddha or you come up some of his elder students, and you say, I wanna be a monk. And they would put… You would kneel in front of them… they would kneel in front of you, excuse me. And the teacher would put his hand on the student’s head and say, repeat after me: I take refuge in the Buddha. I take refuge in the Dharma. And I think later, I take refuge in the Sangha. And then you’re a monk. But then, later on, the monastics were… Sometimes there’s no rule, so they don’t know what is right and wrong. So there is a story that, and it’s true because we have this precept, so there was a young man who became a monk. And his mother was not very supportive of his journey and his decision. And she kept nagging him to come back to life, to lay life. And her main mission was she wants a grandchild. So she’s like, okay, look, darling, I’ve already figured it out. I got a beautiful young woman that is ready to receive your seeds. And this young monk was just so annoyed and he just wanted to be a monk, he just want it to be left alone, and he provided. And the good nature and faith of once you enter this path, you know when you’ve done something that is not fully correct of the journey of you have committed to and he reported to his brothers, his monk fellows. And he said, hey guys, I did this and I feel… something’s really wrong about it. And they all felt really wrong about it too and, you know, they went and they told the Buddha. And the Buddha, you know, I translated it in my mind, the Buddha was probably so annoyed and so upset. It’s like, you idiots. Duh, like monastics, we don’t do this. We’ve committed our path to being free from desire. So this is a practice we don’t get involved in. From that moment, the first precept was created that monastics were not allowed to have sexual intercourse. You can only imagine how many stories that the Buddha had to listen to. And I can only imagine like the Buddha saying, dear Buddha, can we have a moment with you? And he says like, what did you do this time? And then like monks tattletaling on each other. And all of this happened! So during the time of the Buddha, we can only imagine how he had to evolve as a teacher. And that also means he has to evolve as a human being, his capacity of love and understanding. Even in his own community, his cousin wanted to take over the community, wanted to become the Buddha. Plotted against the Buddha, divided the Sangha, created his own party, partnered up with a prince to gain power. So there was even politics started to enter into the sangha, the community. The Buddha had to adapt all the time, had to be so present. So here we can also start to see that Buddhism is a very direct experience to reality. I think a lot of times people come to the practice or has the stereotype image of spirituality is like we’re levitating, we’re sitting beautifully on a mountaintop with foggy mist and it’s magical. And I think there are moments like that. There are beautiful moments like. But there is, whatever we experience in the world all seeps into the monastery life or the sangha’s life because we’re also a fabric of this society. When we learn more about Buddhism and the Buddha himself you get to see the journey and be almost, I feel so grateful for his intuitions and his creative side of creating the sangha. So there’s a very amazing book, and I know, Jo, you haven’t read it yet. Finished it.

00:23:36

Thanks for that. Can we edit this bit out, please?

00:23:38

But it’s one of my favorite book and it took me the second time to really finish it. But it’s considered, I consider it, one of Thay’s masterpieces. And he has many. But it’s called Old Path White Cloud. And it is Thay’s work of retelling the story of the Buddha with historical facts. But the way Thay would say it, the mission of that book was to humanize the Buddha again, so that we can see the Buddha as a human being. And we go through the story of the Buddha’s life through the eyes and experience of a young monk who was an untouchable in the caste system of India, was a buffalo boy, so those who guide and tend to the buffalo. And we go through the story of this young monk named Savasti. So if we are curious, please seek it out. It is a thick book. But It’s very deep. I would say all of Plum Village’s core teachings are in that.

00:24:46

Okay, I’ll read it. Related to that, the way you describe the Buddha is pretty close to the way I would describe Thay and his path. Can you just talk a bit about sort of, you know, Thay’s life, in a sense, reflects in some way the life of the Buddha, because he went through intense suffering in the war in Vietnam and being exiled, in being attacked for trying to renew Buddhism. And his path, you know, we can see that over his whole lifetime, he developed his practice, he developed the teachings and brought them into a modern context. He sort of developed community. And I know we’re going to get to the teachings of community later, but he… You know, it doesn’t feel so wrong and so different, brother. And so you were his attendant for 17 years. And you’ve known, you’ve watched him for much longer than that. How do you see Thay’s life in relationship to the Buddha’s life?

00:25:58

I think we all need role models in our life. And the Buddha was definitely an impactful historical person, but I think very personal to Thay. And he has shared it himself in a lot of teachings, especially to children, when he was a young boy growing up during the French occupation of Vietnam, seeing the poverty, the destruction, the chaos and the uncertainty of a nation. And there was so much fear, so much anxiety. And one day he came across a magazine with an image of a Buddha. And he would explain it like the artist was very good at drawing this human being with a face that was so kind, that has such relaxation and had this smile of peace. And that became an image that Thay was very attracted to, that he said he wanted to be able to be as peaceful and as calm as this image. And to have a smile as this smile of the Buddha. So we can already see the impact there. And the making of who Thay was is very conditioned by his surroundings, his family, and so on. And we’re gonna go deeper into that in some later on episodes that we’re gonna dive into into really the life of Thay. But one thing that I can share is I think a lot of the times when I was with Thay and having seen him also embrace the difficulties of a sangha, he had a place of refuge, which was the Buddha. And sometimes we went through some challenges in the community. One time I remember Thay saying, I think the Buddha’s time was tough too. So everything that we’re going through is totally okay. And it’s true, I’ve seen monks and nuns come into this hut that we’re sitting in, and would bow to Thay and would say, Thay, I am leaving monastic life. And it’s painful, there’s a lot of grief, there is a lot of emotions and feelings that come with that. You know, the question, did I fail as a teacher? What could I have done differently? Could I have given him or her more love? And the grief of losing a student. And there was one time I… Yeah, there were some years we just had so many exits in our community that it shakes the core of the sangha. And Thay, as a human being, is also very sensitive. So all of his emotions are channeled. And I remember one time Thay said, I’m sure when the Buddha witnessed his students leaving, he also had to take refuge in his breathing. And that’s a skillful way of saying like Thay will practice breathing now. And it’s wonderful to have references or role models of people that we know were great human beings. But they are also at the fate of impermanence in life, of the uncertainty of life. In Buddhism, we don’t speak about a god, a being that has all the answers. When we talk about even the Pure Land of the Buddha, it doesn’t mean there’s no suffering there. It means that in that place people know how to be with their suffering. I think that Buddha, as a noble teacher that was here 2,500 years before us, it’s still very close in those moments of suffering. Because ah, the Buddha must also went through this. And that can give you a relief that I am doing my best. And there are some things that are out of my control.

00:30:31

Thank you, brother. And just one other thing related to what you said earlier, which was around… one of the things I think people are very attracted to Plum Village, is that they’re not told to believe anything that they don’t experience. And so one of the things that’s talked about a lot is coming back to the island of oneself. So that actually we can find refuge not in the Buddha outside of ourselves, but the Buddha inside of ourselves. And as you said earlier, that needs to come from direct experience. So can you talk a little bit more about what it means to be in the island of oneself, what it really means to have faith in oneself, because Thay talked about, you know, the Buddha is in us. But we’re also in the Buddha. It’s not a one way relationship. And I think often people feel when they’re looking up to someone, that it’s a one-way street, that person is a teacher and they just receive. But I think one of the things that I’ve discovered in the Plum Village teaching which I think is very powerful is the fact that actually the teachings don’t go one way. That the more I learn, the more I contribute back to those very teachings.

00:31:49

So this is a great segue to the second jewel, which is the Dharma. And the Dharma is a jewel because it is the teachings that we can learn and study and put into practice. And the island that you speak about it’s very fundamental to understand in the Plum Village tradition, that island is our breathing, that island is an anchor for us so that we don’t fall into deeper thinking, or anger, or despair. That we can allow ourselves to go down that rabbit hole. And each and every one of us have had many islands. And many islands support each other’s islands. And so in the practice island, the breathing is an island. The walking meditation is an island. The sitting is an island. They are places of refuge. And talking on the body, the human body, we have the five skandhas, our eyes, ears, nose, tongues, minds, those are like the windows of our connection to life. What we see, what we hear. And what we see, what we hear, what think, what perceive, they all have an impact to our inner island, our minds, our views. So sometimes it’s important to check in our island. How is it? Is it a mess? Do we need to close some windows so we don’t keep disturbing our own minds? And that’s why in the monasteries, or in a practice centers, there are very concrete sessions of practice. When it’s sitting, you close yourself off from screens, conversations, projects. It’s a moment you’re gonna close your windows so you can come into your island, take care of your island within. So this island is already there, but sometimes we need a teacher to help us see the island. To give us some tools so that we have equipment to garden the island within us. We can take care of the trees, the weeds, the path, the fences, the boundaries that we need to create, and so on and so on. Or maybe some boundaries we can open now because we’re freer now. So the island within us is also a place of refuge because that’s where the teacher becomes our own path. So at the beginning the teacher teaches us, but a good teacher would tell us that those wisdoms are already in us. So now we speak about the Dharma. And in the historical fact, the Dharma is usually spoken about the recorded Dharma, so the sutras that we receive, the texts that are still preserved and we still recite from the time of the Buddha. And also spoken Dharma, which is maybe this podcast is a lot of spoken Dharma. There’s a lot of spoken Dharma now online on YouTube, on streaming sites and so on. And these are Dharma, that words that come from the teachings of Buddhism. But Thay emphasizes on another Dharma that I feel can be much more attractive and relevant in a way. Because not all of us will become Dharma teachers, not all of us have that aspiration to be channeling these teachings. And Thay speaks about the living Dharma, and that is the way we apply our practice into everyday life. So when we talk about the living Dharma, it comes so concrete to the way we walk. That is a way of giving, of teaching. The way we cook, the way we paint, the way we write. An article that we write can be a Dharma in itself, it doesn’t have to have the the language of the Dharma, but it is embraced with understanding, with kindness. That is Dharma, that’s a living Dharma. And the living Dharma is also a transmission that we give out every day. Our thoughts can be a living Dharma, our speech can be a living Dharma, and our actions can be a living Dharma. So we don’t have to wait for us to practice for 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, or to even be called an enlightened being then to think that we can transmit the Dharma. The Dharma is ever-present. That is written in the sutra that is been told again and again by many teachers, even our teacher, the Dharma is always present. Why? Because suffering is always present. Whenever there is suffering, the Dharma can be found. And sometimes just by seeing a lotus flower, that can be a teaching in itself. Or listening to the sounds of birds. Or seeing a sunset, that might be a moment of awakening, of how precious life is. That is living Dharma. So the Dharma in the language of our tradition, it really transcends the written Dharma, the spoken Dharma. But it is the Dharma that can be seen and practiced from all beings and all miracles of life, even in death, there is Dharma there. Even in destruction, there is Dharma. And this shines the light to even in suffering, there is Dharma, because we can learn from the suffering. And then this Dharma that we learn from becomes our own teacher. That becomes a living experience for us, and then we can transform, and we can transmit that so that is a continuous journey. And when you were talking about the Buddha and the students and the teachings, the receiver and the practice, the practitioner, you speak on a deep insight and that is emptiness. So to meet the Dharma, one of the first characteristics is you have to have the minds of a beginner. You have to be curious, you have to ready to try it. Right? We don’t… We speak about not having blind faith, but also when we are too cynical, critical, then you’re not giving yourself an opportunity to touch wisdom. So there is also this characteristic that we all already have is to be open. If there is a human being that has gone through so much suffering and is so peaceful right now, he has something to tell us. And we have to put our egos aside, our own stories aside to listen. Thay always says, in a Dharma talk, the best is not to come with a pen and papers. And not to agree to what Thay says. Because the moment you agree to what the teacher is speaking to then you are not listening with a mind that is open, because the moment you don’t agree, then you reject. Then that doesn’t have a role. You’re not doing yourself a favor. And Thay speaks about listening and experiencing the Dharma is like we are the few that is open to receive the rain, the sun, the nutriments of the whole cosmos, so the potentials in us has a chance to rise up. And in our language, the seeds that are in our store consciousness, our ancestral wisdom, have been handed down to us, have an opportunity to manifest. And we can only do that. Also when we can open our hearts and mind to receive. So to receive the Dharma, you have to be open to the Buddha, the teachings, in order to receive. So that’s why in our tradition, when we want to stay, to become a monk, you have to write a request. It’s because you’re opening your heart to receive. And every time we want to receive to become a monk, to become a novice, to become a bhikshu, to receive the 14 mindfulness training. We have to have an aspiration because that is the heart space of wanting to learn. But if your heart is closed, then how can you receive it? So the transmitter also relies on the receiver. And when the receiver is there, then the transmitter has a role to offer, so there is deep interbeing there.

00:41:49

Thank you, brother. A couple of things that come up from what you say. One is… which I have found so supportive of my own practice is not to see Buddhism as a sitting meditation on its own. You know, there are a lot of people in the world who think that practice is sitting for 15, 20, 30, 40 minutes in the morning and then continuing your day. But that actually in every moment of every waking minute and hour that we can touch these teachings and actually connect to them deeply and that actually that involves, as you say, an opening up rather than a segmentation which we often do sort of see people do. And the other thing is that it brings up for me about the importance of focus and concentration and taking time. You know, we live in a world where a lot of people talk about sort of the supermarket spirituality that people will go and, like in a supermarket, go and test out one spiritual tradition for a short period of time, and then check out another. And what I have learnt is about the importance of sticking with one tradition. Because, actually, when… It takes time. And I know there’s an understanding in Buddhism about ripening and we’ve done a podcast episode on that. It takes time for this to sink in. It takes time for this to unfurl. There are layer of the layer of the layer and if we come in with an expectation of sort of, it’s going to come to us straight away. And if after a week we haven’t got it, then actually it’s not for us, then it doesn’t work. This is something I’ve really learned deeply that and why I have chosen to put, as my wife Paz says, all my eggs in one basket, which is this tradition, because actually what it’s shown is that it allows me to understand life better, it allows me to feel more stability, allows me to feel more joy and happiness in my life. So, okay, that’s good enough. Why would I need to look elsewhere? And that it can go deeper. And deeper and deeper. So you have been a monk now for over 20 years. What has been your experience with the Dharma about, you know, from age 13 to now your thirties…?

00:44:37

37 or 38.

00:44:42

Whatever.

00:44:44

Whatever.

00:44:44

Whatever. In your late thirties.

00:44:46

Yes, I’m born in 87, so whoever wants to do the math can do the math.

00:44:50

Where are you? How do you see that path for yourself of connecting to the Dharma and how do you see it ripening from here on? So where do you? Almost where do you place yourself in it?

00:45:02

Hmm… I come back to a moment that I met my hermitage. When I say this, it’s a story from Thay that he said, when he was a child he met The Hermit and the Well, it’s a very famous story in the Plum Village tradition. And I met my hermit when my dad was telling me a story of his own journey as a young man. And he has already come to Plum Village, and he came here in the early 90s. He was looking for his place of refuge and healing from his journey as a boat person. Before we sleep, me and my sister would love to hear our dad’s story because they’re epic. Like, literally, epic stories that can only be seen in movies. And because it was during the war time and so on. So he has some amazing stories. And what he would usually do right before we sleep, then he would put his hand on my stomach. And for whatever reason, I don’t know why, but I always felt like when he put his hand on my stomach, I felt like he’s counting my breathing. And I was very attentive to the breath. And I think that was my first encounter of mindful breathing without knowing. Later on, I put all the dots together, oh, in Plum Village, there’s a practice of deep belly breathing, you know, when you’re very emotional, you would put your hand on your stomach just to feel the breath so you’re not feeling lost in your stories and in your thoughts. Of course, by origin, my family is Buddhist. There’s so many things in life where I think it’s just luck. So I would say my luck was having my father that was curious enough to wanting to have a spiritual life. And by chance in the early, I think 1990s, Thay and Sister Chan Khong were in Toronto. And he came to a talk and he’s like, dude, I need to go to Plum Village. And he worked for two years saving enough to come. And fortunately my dad had also this characteristics, like as a father, I have to introduce spirituality to my children. So he waited until we had enough money and then we were mature enough to make this travel and then Plum Village. Coming to this unknown place, unknown territory, even unknown community was such a wow factor for me because it was really meeting a community that embodied the Dharma. And embody the awaken aspiration. And I really wasn’t feeling like I’m here for devotional practice. And I speak about luck because never in a million years that I would think I would be a monk. We went to school, like who ever tells you to become a monk as a career? Right? It’s like, so it’s really luck by chance that I was able to meet this Dharma. And when you met the Dharma, and you see that it fits your cup of tea, it’s like, it’s literally the nutriment that you need. Why keep looking? And I think, maybe we’re lucky, Jo, to have found a community and a practice that fits us. And I say this and I know I’m very biased to Plum Village because this place has given birth to my spiritual dimension, so there is a bias toward Plum Village tradition. But I also am very aware that Thay’s teaching and Thay’s Dharma cultivation, as well as the way of maybe some of the monastic life that we live here is not suitable for everyone. And our Dharma is not suitable for everyone. I’m totally okay with that, I’m not here to convert anyone, I am not here to tell you this is the best. I’m just offering, hey, this is one of the doors of spirituality that you can experience. And I have also seen people who have done spiritual shopping. I feel, I have a lot of compassion for them, because never is enough. What we’re searching for sometimes I feel is so beyond us that no matter what community or what teachings you will touch it will never answer because you already have a view, and you’re not open to learning. So there’s a saying in the monastic culture and in the spiritual world is when the boat arrives at your shore, you have to enter and get on it. You have a choice. And that boat won’t wait for you though, because time passes. And you can let it slip away. And your heart plays a big part in this. So when I was 13, my heart was really fascinating. It was like, it wants to be a monk. Absolutely wants to be a monk. I don’t know how to explain that besides like I think I fell in love with this. And I do know that if, 2001, and my mother didn’t give me permission, I don’t think I would be here doing this podcast. So there’s so much conditions that come all around to make us meet the Dharma. And then to listen to our hearts and then to let go of the views and the stories. Because I wanted to be a successful person, whatever that meant. But I was so ready to abandon that. Because I’ve felt and I’ve touched something very new here. And the path of the Dharma, there’s a lot of letting go also. Because you’re going to meet new teachings and ways of how to cultivate our minds now. So we have to make new decisions. We’re not going to go back to watching these particular TV series or movies because it doesn’t nourish our Dharma body now. So because we’re an embodiment of the Dharma also, whatever we’re interacting with it counter or it nourishes what we’re trying to cultivate. So the Dharma is very conditioned. And do not take the Dharma for granted. And I have met my own community where those who have taken for granted the Dharma and don’t take it seriously. And they will lose the Dharma. That’s why the Three Jewels, also spoken in our tradition as a jewel to have gratitude towards in order to honor that embodiment and that putting into action of. So I think all of us will have a very unique story, a unique journey to the Dharma. And for some it is through pure luck. For some it is through suffering that makes us have to discover this path or look for another way, because everything we’ve been doing in life is just not adding up anymore. And I’ve met so many people that come to Plum Village and each story is so unique. Each story is a teaching in its own. Each story also gives an evidence of we need a spiritual dimension. And then I think this is a good segue, in our tradition, to come to the sangha, because the Dharma in the light of the Three Jewels it’s also practiced by people, so people create a Sangha. In the traditional form, it takes four members to be a Sangha. So wherever, back in the days, when monks would want to create a new Sangha, they would need four monks to form a council that can be considered a Sangha. And Thay really took that on as a mission. Because Thay in knowing and probably he had his intuition and sense, especially being in the west of the mindset of individualism is so powerful. It’s so strong. It divides us, it pushes us away, it’s a competition. Even in spirituality is a huge competition. Right now, I’ve discovered and I’ve learned that mindfulness is a multi-billion dollar pathway. Well-being is a trillion dollar business. A lot of hotels are being transformed into a well-being centers, to pamper, to care. And, you know, it has this place. But it can be misinterpreted, also Plum Village becomes that. And there’s a danger there. We’re a monastery, so we can’t give everyone four star treatment, you know. And there is an importance of understanding the difference between a monastery and a well-being center, for example. And a monastery, we do have to have monastic people who have fully committed their life to this. And when Thay had this realization that… Because Thay didn’t have students until much later in his life. There’s a lot of factors to it too, because of the war, and I think there was uncertainty of his own life. Because there were two assassination attempts on his life, as well as he witnessed his students, his lay students being killed during the war. As well as he had one early student in Vietnam, monastic student, and he also died. So I think there’s a lot of grief. It was only in 1988, so six years after the establishment of Plum Village, which is 1982, Plum Village was founded. And six years later Thay realized, if I want to have and build a center of transformation of peace, I need community. And community that will stay with me. Because he had a lot of lay students, but lay students would go home and have children, have family. And that becomes their little Sangha. And they have to honor that path. But Thay needed a living community with him. And he also thought that he would take care of all the already existing monks and nuns in the world and there were a lot of them and they would come to Plum Village to seek guidance from Thay. But then they would all have to return back to Vietnam, America, Germany, different places in the world. And when they’re not conditioned by this environment, they have to fall back to what they started. And a lot of it is a traditional Buddhism. And Thay’s vision for Buddhism was very different. Was a renewal, was a change, and a language where monks and nuns are very much a part of the society. And so, in 82, Thay received his first three students. I would say Thay’s a feminist, because all three of them were women. And they were powerhouses of Plum Village. Sister Chan Khong, Sister Chan Duc, and Sister Chan Vi. And they were his students and they started to become this new foundation and with Thay having students showed other people oh, Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh is having students. I’m gonna sign up, right? So, there was a domino effect there. And so that vision of Thay, I would consider it his greatest masterpiece which is creating the Sangha. Thay speaks about the Sangha in a very highly jewel. And in the traditional Buddhism, people talk a lot about the Buddha. It’s easy to talk about the Buddha, an enlightened being, better than all of us. We’re little, we have to listen to him. It’s easy. And then the Dharma is the words of truth, it is the path of enlightenment, that’s easy. And Thay will say, but the Sangha is what keeps those two jewels alive and relevant. And that was and is a huge contribution to Buddhism that Thay has laid down for other Buddhist communities and traditions to see. Because if the Sangha is not alive, it’s not receiving young people, it’s a dying tradition. He really cared about this. He really cared about young people coming into the community. If any tradition and young people are not coming in, we’re doing something wrong. It’s not speaking to the language. There’s not new blood cell in this body. And Thay put a lot of emphasis in his own learning to adapt to the young generation. What is their suffering? How do I communicate so they can understand the Dharma? So that it doesn’t feel like it’s far away. It’s very practical. And that is an art in itself.