The interview is also available in French, Italian and Spanish.
In this article Kim Thai interviews Brother Trời Bảo Tạng, also known as Brother Treasure, who discusses why a non-binary monastic order is needed, and the practice of speaking up and letting go.
Originally from Indonesia, Brother Bao Tang (he/him) seems to have an inherent capacity to see the world beyond norms. This perspective is what drove him to become a monastic, what drew him to Zen teacher Thich Nhat Hanh’s Plum Village tradition—with its activist roots—and is what motivates him to speak out as a queer monastic in support of the LGBTQIA+ community.
Brother Bao Tang is able to strike a balance between strong advocacy and loving gentleness when talking about charged topics that have often been ignored in Buddhist communities. This nonviolent, mindful and often surprisingly joyful approach is how he has created an inclusive community for the Rainbow Family, queer members within Plum Village.
He has facilitated open discussions about homophobia and made practical structural changes, like providing gender-neutral bathrooms at various practice centers. Brother Bao Tang’s name translates to Brother Treasure in English. Though he doesn’t know why Thay (what Plum Village practitioners lovingly call Thich Nhat Hanh) gave him this name, it was clear from our conversation that his presence, his insight, is exactly that—a treasure—for the LGBTQIA+ community, the entire Plum Village community, and beyond. As a queer practitioner in the Plum Village tradition, I am deeply inspired by Brother Bao Tang. —*Kim Thai (she/her)
Kim Thai: What does queerness mean to you? And as a practicing monastic, why does this matter?
Brother Bao Tang: Queerness means to be beautiful, to be yourself, because everyone is different. We can be queer in many ways—not only gender identity or sexual orientation. We also may be culturally queer. We’re Asian, but we live in the West. There’s a lot of mix in the world, and we can’t necessarily identify with 100 percent of something. So, for me, queerness is about how you want to be yourself and to accept that you’re not 100 percent what you’re supposed to be. You have this kind of space and spectrum you can move around and explore, allowing you to be peaceful in the present moment.
Kim Thai: As a practicing monastic, why does queerness matter to you?
Brother Bao Tang: At the beginning of my monastic life, I didn’t think it mattered. I felt like I didn’t need to talk about my sexual orientation because I wasn’t having sex anymore. I’m ordained as a monk, so why would I need to share my sexual identity? But when I began engaging with the rainbow family—a community with a diversity of sexual orientation and gender—I slowly started to see the suffering inside. I also started to see a door for happiness. Especially for the younger generation, it’s important to have a path—where you are, whoever you are, queer or not. Especially with queer siblings, there’s a lot of confusion about that. And I think it’s good to have a community where we sit, explore, and experience together, allowing ourselves to also grow and change.
Kim Thai: What challenges have you faced as a queer monastic?
Brother Bao Tang: Sometimes when I face challenges, I know that this is my mud, but the lotus will come. Every time I feel discriminated against or like homophobic things are happening, I just need to take care of my feelings and know that things are impermanent. And I ask: How can I embrace the people?
I don’t mind people being homophobic, because that’s how they are right now. It’s like when we come out and we want other people to accept us—those people are coming out to us as homophobic. How can we embrace that? When we block someone’s way, it means we ourselves don’t move, because we’re too busy blocking someone. If you don’t have space, you cannot grow; you get squeezed.
Kim Thai: What is one of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings that particularly spoke to you as a queer person?
Brother Bao Tang: The teaching of non-duality. We can be free of the concept of “being ourselves,” as we’re changing all the time. We don’t need to get caught in a certain kind of identity. I shouldn’t even get caught in my identity as a monk because I’m also a human being, a brother, a mentor, a student, Indonesian, etc. I’m more than just who I identify as. That teaching gives me a lot of freedom and space to explore myself as a queer person and as a spiritual person.
Kim Thai: One of the challenges you identified in the past is the division of the monastic order. As it is traditionally understood, a man is a bhiksu, or monk, while a woman is a bhiksuni, or nun. What’s your vision for how monastic orders can expand beyond these categories?
Brother Bao Tang: As the world changes, humans are also changing, and Buddhism must change. If we look at the history of the Buddha, how he started his career, and how his community grew, we can learn a lot of things. The Buddhist community started only with men. A community with women didn’t exist, but it came into existence at some point. If you can have the second community come into existence, that means a third, fourth, fifth group is possible. How? It depends on the ripening of that group. When you plant a seed, it grows into a tree. We never know how it’ll look or how many branches it might have. But we can allow that tree to grow as long as we take care of it. So, there’s a possibility for there to be three, four, or five communities, especially if human beings have begun growing beyond two genders.
What’s most important is to practice speaking out and letting go at the same time.
What often happens is, we don’t speak up because we think that it’s useless; we won’t be listened to anyway, and nothing will change. But in fact, speaking out is an important practice. And what is also important is letting go. The purpose is to send a message, not to change something. Change will come by itself. But the change needs a trigger. The trigger can be through words, through existence, through their true coming out, through many ways, but the trigger needs to have the flavor of letting go, so that there’s no violence or forcing something on anybody.
Kim Thai: What are your hopes for the queer community both in the Plum Village community and the Buddhist community at large?
Brother Bao Tang: I have a bigger one than that; my wish is to have no need for a LGBTQ community anymore, because we’ll have grown as human beings and become one. Everyone has the right to love who they need to love. Everyone needs to be what they need to be. If, one day, we have that openness as human beings, then the identity LGBTQ won’t be needed anymore. We won’t need the pride flag, because we’re all in one humanity—all under one human flag.
Kim Thai: Any advice for LGBTQ dharma practitioners who might be feeling isolated or afraid given the state of the world?
Brother Bao Tang: Be yourself and be beautiful. Embrace whoever you are. Be brave. If you are interested in practicing in the Plum Village and joining the Rainbow Family, you can learn more by visiting an LGBTQIA+ affinity space at plumline.org.
This interview is written by Kim Thai, it was supposed to be published in Bodhi Leaves newsletter of Lionsroar. You can subscribe to the newsletter here.
Kim Thai (she/her) is an interdisciplinary mindfulness writer and teacher. As an Emmy-award storyteller and a proud Queer kid of Vietnamese refugees, she has uplifted marginalized voices across different mediums for almost 20 years. Her personal essays on identity, healing and social justice have been published in New York Magazine’s The Cut, Newsweek, Buzzfeed and more. She is a certified yoga and meditation teacher and was given the dharma name Tâm Giáng Tỗ (Ancestral River of the Heart) in the Plum Village tradition to widen and deepen the insight from Buddhist teachings. You can follow her work by subscribing to her mindfulness newsletter Just One Breath or checking out her website.
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